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Post by Koyote on Jul 16, 2008 9:04:27 GMT -5
I agree completely Matt. It takes discipline to think before shooting, especially in airsoft when we're firing non-lethal projectiles. Just an idea, but maybe at the next game we're at (2 weeks from now) we should have a short safety demonstration where we actually measure out the minimum engagement distances on the field. The only reason I mention this is because it was not until recently that I actually got out a tape measure on my driveway and measured out what 25', 50', and 75' actually look like. Before that, I just used to suggest a 25' minimum engagement distance because I thought I had a pretty good idea of how far apart 25' was. But when I measured it out, I couldn't believe how close it actually was. It was really eye-opening for me, and I think it would be equally informative for everyone else. Now that I actually know what 25'-30' looks like, I realize that there have been several times during games at BIA that an enemy and I have agreed to cease firing until put some more distance between us, and we were already farther away than 30'. I don't think anyone at BIA has a chronograph, but it also wouldn't be a bad idea to get a feel for how hot everyone's gun is shooting, which should also factor in to the minimum engagement rules. Obviously my UTG M3 shooting at 270fps isn't going to be near as dangerous at 30' as a 420fps AEG at 30'. And call me a worrier, but I feel like the day is coming where someone gets lit up with a high-fps full-auto stream (accidentally) by one of the 249's/RPK's at close range. Just an idea. I been thinking about the support weapons again...maybe when we get the bunkers in support guns have to stay in the bunkers...reason I suggest that is because I for a fact know that it is eaisy in the heat of the moment to sometimes shoot when it is a bit too close...i'd think having the 249's and Rpk in the bunkers stop people from shooting too close...it's just an idea.
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Post by octorfunk on Jul 16, 2008 9:22:55 GMT -5
That's a good idea, something to think about.
Another idea is to require support gunners to carry an alternate weapon that can be used in closer situations. This would give them freedom to roam the battlefield, but also feel like they have an alternative to breaking the MED.
Of course, I think the best solution is to practice and enforce good trigger discipline, and make sure that everyone is fully aware of the MED rules.
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Post by Koyote on Jul 16, 2008 11:15:41 GMT -5
Once again I agree with you...I currently carry a cyma G18 as my back up.
People just need to learn too (including myself) call someone out...I think most are worried if they call someone out it'll give away there position and the person they call out will end up shooting them any way.
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Post by Renegade on Jul 16, 2008 11:58:31 GMT -5
I like the idea of the spring pistol thing. It would still keep the game fun instead of stopping dead in your tracks and move to a safer distance. Or the rules for the MED could be Bang kills, but alot of people dont like those. Or everyone could bring rubber knifes and throw them at each other xD
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Post by Ferratus-Command on Jul 16, 2008 12:16:17 GMT -5
I like the idea of the spring pistol thing. It would still keep the game fun instead of stopping dead in your tracks and move to a safer distance. Or the rules for the MED could be Bang kills, but alot of people dont like those. Or everyone could bring rubber knifes and throw them at each other xD Regardless of the med you will always still ALWAYS still have those few exceptions where you are walking through the woods and someone scares the living crap out of you and bang... i did it tyler once ( Felt really bad afterwords but none the less it happened )... However, on the flip side I think I have the most " Call outs " on our team LOL.. Mark, Clemente , Jimmy , Dave---- almost everyone at one point or another...
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Post by octorfunk on Jul 16, 2008 12:33:22 GMT -5
I'm all for call-outs and bang kills. They work great when you sneak up on someone.
I remember on one occasion I was hiding in a bush 10ft from Matt. I waited there for 2-3 minutes until he moved further away from me, then I gave him a nice 3-shot blast from my shotgun. In retrospect, I should have just called him out and kept the game rolling.
Those kinds of kills work great for when you've totally caught someone by surprise, and there is no way (besides a gun malfunction or spontaneous blindness) that you wouldn't hit them if you pulled the trigger.
The idea of spring pistols has come up before, and there was some interest, but I don't think enough of the regular attenders were on the forums enough to really be able to get in on the discussion. I personally think it's a great idea. Once you get inside the MED, don't worry about calling eachother out or retreating to a safe distance, just drop your AEG's, draw your sdiearms, and shoot it out.
It would make for some fantastic mini-battles. It would actually be pretty funny; you've got both teams clashing in the middle of the field, spewing 100's of BB's from RPK's, M249's, Ak's, shotguns, etc. And then off to the side, you've got Kyle and Matt running around like little girls taking potshots at eachother with spring pistols at 10ft.
Of course, the pistols would need to be used in conjunction with the current call-out rules, because I certainly wouldn't want to sneak up behind RPK-wielding Kyle holding just my spring pistol, only to scare the crap out of him and get lit up from 20ft.
In head-on confrontations where both parties are aware of eachother, spring pistols come out. When one party has completely surprised the other, call-outs would probably be the better option. Of course, if you can safely sneak up behind someone and get them out with a spring pistol before they even know you're there, then kudos to you.
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Post by Koyote on Jul 16, 2008 12:37:17 GMT -5
I have plenty of spring pistols we can use...we could try it this coming Sunday.
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Post by octorfunk on Jul 16, 2008 12:42:28 GMT -5
Just for fun, here are two examples of MED confrontations. 1. 1:25 in the video youtube.com/watch?v=zJNv1Ct2XUI- Great shotgun work, but he totally lit those 2 guys up from 2-5 feet with a shotgun firing multiple BB's. Bad idea. 2. 1:30 in the video youtube.com/watch?v=14gbItUbl8s- In this one, the guy with the pistol is caught completely off guard by the guy coming around the pillar. However, instead of his attacker shooting him point blank, he calls him out, and the other guy quickly recognizes it and calls himself out with neither of them firing a single shot. Great discipline, great reaction, very safe.
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Post by Brandon on Jul 16, 2008 12:49:24 GMT -5
1st video was awesome
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Post by Ferratus-Command on Jul 16, 2008 13:32:17 GMT -5
Just for fun, here are two examples of MED confrontations. 1. 1:25 in the video youtube.com/watch?v=zJNv1Ct2XUI- Great shotgun work, but he totally lit those 2 guys up from 2-5 feet with a shotgun firing multiple BB's. Bad idea. 2. 1:30 in the video youtube.com/watch?v=14gbItUbl8s- In this one, the guy with the pistol is caught completely off guard by the guy coming around the pillar. However, instead of his attacker shooting him point blank, he calls him out, and the other guy quickly recognizes it and calls himself out with neither of them firing a single shot. Great discipline, great reaction, very safe. Good show.. at 4:54 I cannot help but think Frag magnet !
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Post by octorfunk on Jul 16, 2008 14:26:38 GMT -5
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Post by Ferratus-Command on Jul 16, 2008 14:36:04 GMT -5
Very nice .. obviously a gas gun !!
at 3:35 someone was getting pegged but not calling it !!!
Now back on topic. ;D
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Post by Koyote on Jul 16, 2008 23:06:26 GMT -5
This Sunday I will have Tim help me out with showing those that are there how close is too close and we'll try to get them to call people out instead of liteing them up at too close of a range.
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Post by Koyote on Jul 17, 2008 8:30:33 GMT -5
0-250fps (1.14 joules): Full Auto, no minimum engagement distance. 250-399fps (1.48 joules): Full Auto, 35' minimum engagement distance. 400-449fps (1.87 joules): Semi Auto only, 50' minimum engagement distance. 450-500fps (2.32 joules): Semi Auto only, 75' minimum engagement distance.
How's that?
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Post by octorfunk on Jul 17, 2008 9:14:08 GMT -5
That's a good start. I would actually get a tape measure and go measure out 25' in your yard or somewhere, it's not very far apart to be getting lit up on full at 399fps!
I don't have a problem with the rest of them, but I know that several BIA members have AEG's shooting over 400fps, so I would want to hear their feedback on the 50' MED on 400-449fps guns, and on semi-auto only.
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